welcome to "politics nation." i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, rick santorum started something ugly when he questioned the president's religious beliefs and sadly, it's just getting uglier. this comment started it all. >> this is what the president's agenda -- it's not about you, it's about some phony ideal, some phony theology. >> a phony theology? that's appalling. but now, others are questioning the president's faith, including franklin graham, the son of preacher billy graham. why is that significant? well, because billy graham is a major evangelical leader in this country. he has met with every u.s. president since harry truman. in 2010, he even met with and prayed with president obama, yet today, graham's son refused to call the president a christian.

>> do you by live that president obama is a christian? >> well, i think you have to ask president obama. he has said he is a christian, so i just have to assume that he is. >> you stated in the past the president is a christian as much as he goes to church on sunday but you don't know if he has accepted jesus christ. do you still believe that? >> i mean, i don't know. >> so, therefore, by your definition, he is not a christian? >> again, you have to ask him. i cannot answer that question for anybody. >> franklin graham is not gonna answer that question for anybody? anybody? well, except for rick santorum. >> do you believe that rick santorum is christian? >> oh, i think so. i believe that he is. i think he is -- i think he is, no question. i believe's man of faith. >> so, rick santorum is a man of faith, but president obama? well, we will have to take him at his word. i wonder how he feels about newt gingrich.

>> and i think -- i think newt is a christian. >> newt's a christian, too? but president obama? well, graham has some questions about him. >> president obama, the muslims. of the world, he seems to be more concerned about them than the christians that are being murdered in the muslim countries. the president more concerned about muslims than christians. questioning the president's beliefs is divisive and sadly, rick santorum keeps doing it, too. >> went to reverend wright's church for 20 years. now, you can question what kind of theology reverend wright has, but it's a christian church. he says he is a christian. he goes a christian church now. the prayer breakfast. look, i'm not going to question the president -- what the president believes in. >> you say you're not going to question what the president believes in, so why do you keep questioning what the president believes in?

it's about as ugly as politics gets. joining me now is congressman emmanuel cleaver, democrat from monsieur rained chairman of the congressional black caucus and frank schaffer, a best-selling author who grew up in the evangelical movement but has since left it. his latest book is "sex, mom and god." thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> good to be with you. >> congressman, let me start with you, you are a minister. is this a new low for people to question the president's faith? >> you know, we are moving into one of the saddest eras during my adult life because the only answer to a question that is raised about somebody's faith is section 3, article -- section 6, article 3 of the constitution, which will have no religious test. we shouldn't be asking about the president's faith or frankly about the faith of mitt romney,

but it is -- it is so sick now that we are in many ways trying to turn this presidential race into a bat of hip pock criticism who is the better person of faith? and most of us try to practice our faith without presumption. in other words, we have enough trouble trying to bring ourselves closer to god. we don't have to go around with some kind of divine search light looking at the theology of others. and so, i am really saddened by reverend franklin and all these candidates who are trying now to thee ol jiz something that should simply be politicized. >> no you know, i think, frank, when i listened to this when i was a kid, just going to first, second grade, i heard the debate around kath who will gist with john kennedy, i thought we were past all of this in terms of judging people's faith, judging

people's practice. these people have brought out some very ugly, draconian kind of dialogue. when you look today, even mitt romney attacked the president for promoting "a secular agenda" that fights against religion. listen. >> this religious freedom which we enjoy in america, a unique privilege, and you expect the president of the united states to be sensitive to that freedom and to protect it. and unfortunately, perhaps because of the people the president hangs around with and their agenda, a secular agenda, they have fought against religion. >> frank, a secular agenda? because i may practice my faith and believe in things differently than you, all of a sudden, i'm not religious? >> well, you know, the period of history we are in is not happening by accident, reverend sharpton, and i think we all know that. this is a well-orchestrated campaign by the religious right that has infiltrated the

republican party. people like charles colson, people like robert george from prince ton got together and put together something few years ago called the manhattan deck claar ray stating the president does anything we don't agree with, stem cell research, abortion, whatever it is we don't have to obey what he is saying and then they pulled the roman catholic bishops in. 150 evangelicals signed on this is a well-laid trap this whole religious freedom try dlooi is going on now didn't suddenly happen. they have been on a fishing expedition trying to label this president first as a muslim, then as a communist, then as a christian, then a nonsecularist. all of a sudden, he is anti-religious because he is telling people that have insurance policies? this country that they have got to give women contraceptives. so, let's be clear, this is not just a few isolated voices. the fact that all the republican candidates are saying the same thing, the fact that the roman catholic bishops have thrown their hat into the ring on this

the fact that the religious right leaders have been doing things like charles colson did when he wrote for the "wall street journal" last week saying this president is against religious freedom this is a well-orchestrated, far-right, religious right attack. that's where it is coming from. it's dirty politics masquerading as concern for religion. they do not care about with what religion what they care about is defeating our first african-american president. they have tried everything else and now they are going to see if this sticks. well, good luck to them because there are a lot of evangelical christians for instance, who i know personally, i'm going to a conference this summer called the wild goose festival all they be speaking at in june that has gathered expressly to give another opinion, saying, look, christians can reach out to people of other faiths. >> that's right. >> the same thing -- the same thing with a speaking tour i'm on right now called theocracy or democracy. that's tight that will i'm going to be out there speaking b. >> well, let me go back for a minute because i want to ask you what you think about that chairman cleaver, as well as the

fact that we have seen the church become used by a lot of forces in the past. people forget the famous historic letter from a birmingham jail, martin luther king wrote. he wrote to clergymen who were saying to calm down and let segregation take a slow process to its own eradication some this is not new that people tried hide behind so-called religion to hide some very reactionary policies. >> well, what we are seeing right now is the hijacking of faith by individuals who probably, i would imagine are good and decent people but look, when you bring theologic arrogance into the political arena, it means that you are now willing and able to declare anybody who believes differently as unworthy and if they are unworthy, then you can label them just about anything and mr.

santorum is saying the president was, you know, not a worthy person. and then he talked about his theology and then later said it had something to do with his environmental policy, which nobody in this country is going to believe. but even if you consider that he misspoke, he has repeatedly gone to the issue of faith. look, we don't need to hear about somebody's faith. we want to hear about their economic policies. >> right. >> we want to know what they are going to do to bring down unemployment. and this is a travesty. i hope the american people becomes angry at this. section six of the constitution says we should have no religious test. >> now, let me go back to you, frank, with one thing that's -- that i really -- you coming out of the evangelical movement can help me with this. rick santorum in 2008 said that, and i'm quoting, i'm going to let you hear him. he said, "satan has his sights

set on the united states of america." listen. >> if you were seat tan, who would you attack in this day and age? there is no one else to go after, other than the united states. and that's about the case for now almost 200 years. the place where he was, in my mind, the most successful and first successful was in academia. he understood pride of smart people. we saw this domino effect. and of course, we look at the shape of mainline property test talentism in this country and it is in shambles it is gone, from the world of christianity you cannize see it. >> mainline property test talentism gone from the mainline of christianity. academia satan has attacked. i mean this is very extreme. is he playing politics or is

this really who rick santorum is? >> this is who he really s he is trending going back to some work that my father did that i talk about as a reason why i left the evangelical movement in mid'80s that set out to first demonize the united states government as an agent of evil because it allowed abortion, gay rights and before that, it allowed integration, all these white public school kids being pulled out of schools that were integrate, all the christian schools starting toer is a racist population and on and on it goes. this is the latest manifestation. these people believe it fill ofically. what happened they essentially believe is somehow america is a city set on a him. turns out it is a city set on a hill that favors white people, not immigration, not people of color, not gay people t is a very small city. and they have this sense of american exceptionalism. we are special, we rule the roost. they see themselves toe-to-toe with the devil in a fight for

the heart and soul of this country this has nothing to do with religion now, although rick santorum believes this he is spouting you the evangel lickal religious right line, cooked up by dr. dobson, jerry falwell and others. i was involved in this movement, as i talk about in my book "sex, mom and god." as i said earlier, some of us have got out of t so these folks who are asking me to come speak on this theocracy or democracy tour are asking me to come set the record straight. you can't payment with too broad a brush here there are a lot of evangelicals are moderate,ing or nigds the wild goose fest fal. i'm not a pessimist. i think rick santorum and the republicans have burnt off more than they can chew and they have lied about president obama through the tea party. he is not born in america, he is a communist, blah, blah, blah, now like about him being anti-religious because he wants women could have contraceptive cover with insurance. >> ton lie, frank.

let me go quickly back to you, chairman, show you this very quickly, the response. newt gingrich even said the president is dangerous to our national security. now, i thought the president was the one that went and got bin laden and other things. listen to mr. gingrich. >> all of you should be very deeply concerned about national security. barack obama is the most dangerous president in history. defeating barack obama becomes a duty of national security because the fact is he is incapable of defending the united states. >> is that just demagoguery or is that delusional? i mean what are we looking at here? >> delusional. >> "saturday night live," that's skit out of "saturday night live." look, it is so sick that we have

come to this place. you run a campaign on either two things, one, hope, or the other, fear. and they have chosen to run a campaign or fear, painting president obama as some kind of other, something that we are not, the rest of the country is not. and the one thing, reverend, that you know well, and i hope the american people will do this those in the judeo-christian tradition, in the gospel according to matthew, 6th chapter, jesus warps us about this he says, when you pray, do not do as the farris sees who stand in public to pray so they can receive the attention of men. when you pray, go to the upper room go to your closet. in other words -- >> chairman cleaver, you are doing something wrong, you are quoting the bible that you understand, not just use. >> there i go again. >> congressman emmanuel cleaver, frank share, thank you both pore your time coming on the show tonight. frank, i'm with you, the christian right needs to meet the right christians. coming up, president obama talks jobs as the economy hits a

major milestone. the recovery is in full swing, just as long as congress doesn't muck it up. >> our recovery is gaining steam. our economy is getting stronger. now my message to congress is don't stop here. keep going. and mitt romney's running low on cash. and republicans are starting to talk about other options. could a bush go back on the gop ticket? plus, women rallied to protect their rights. new signs republicans could be backing down. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc.

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welcome back to "politics nation." today, we saw a major mile step for the economic recovery of the country. the dow jones hit the 13,000-mark for the first time since may of 2008, the start of the financial crisis. for the first time in nearly four years, stocks are trading around where they were before the bush recession. in fact, since president obama was sworn into office, the dow

has gone up by more than 5,000 points. that's 63%. and jobs are rising, too. we have seen job growth for 23 straight months, 3.7 million jobs were created. the president talked about the recovery today at the white house. >> our recovery is gaining steam. our economy is getting stronger. so we are headed in the right direction and the last thing we should do is turn around and go back to the policies that weren't working in the first place. that's why it's so important for us to stay focused and congress to continue to do the things that the american people want to see done in order to improve the economy. my message to congress is don't stop here. keep going. >> and the obama administration announced it would release its new plan to reform the tax code tomorrow t will include many of

the fairness ideas he outlined during his state of the union. joining me now, dana milbank, political columnist for the "washington post," and a bob franken, a syndicated columnist for king features. thank you both for being here tonight. >> good evening. >> now, dana, republicans say the president is bad for business, but don't the markets disagree? >> >> well, it would seem tonight case, reverend al. you know, this -- the jobs numbers that we have been talking about before this really up precedented rise over time in the stock market put the president in a terrific position. we have to add the usual caveat that all of this can change very quickly and we see with gas prices creeping up now the recovery is still very fragile. this can be sent back in the other direction without too much effort whatsoever. so the president doesn't want to get up there and start thumping his chest over this but people are feeling a whole lot better and that's you why see the

president's numbers improving so much versus his prospective opponents and why those prospective opponents are eshuing so much on the campaign trail. >> the president may not be thumping his chest and maybe shouldn't, but he is certainly hearing his opponents really try and beat down any suggestion of progress. look at how the republican candidates are painting the president as against people on jobs and recovery. watch this. >> his potsie has been outrageously anti-american energy. the high gas price is directly the result of president obama. >> he is the reason it has taken so long for the economy to show its signs of getting together. >> the president is not on your side. this is president is not for

jobs. >> the trend going in the right direction, how do they seal these extreme pictures like the president is doing nothing and anti the progress to take forward? >> when you are talking about the economy it is really kind of difficult to really cover it in a soundbite. it is really ripe for obfuscation and that is exactly what you are seeing the republicans doing. they are pretending that the progress hasn't been made. they shudder at the thought that people are going to start looking at their 401(k)s again and see they have increased in value. this has got to be really, really something dangerous as far as the republican candidates are concerned. i think it explains why they are focusing so much now on religion and the various other social issues. they are beginning to sound as a matter of fact sometimes like passive aggressive taliban. >> let me go back to you, dana. the president was out again

today pushing, raise tax on million nation, tax breaks for small businesses, refinancing of home owners. that message resonates with voters. if you luke at any polling, that's where the american people are. >> you are starting to sound a little bit like a republican, reverend al, and that's because -- because the newt gingrich, rick santorum, mitt romney are tied up having debates over birth control and whatnot, they have left the center of the political spectrum to the president, he can claim some of their issues. anybody that saw the obama budget that came out last week would not think the man has become a fiscal conservative or a republican by my means but he is able to talk to those voters in the middle now while his would-be opponents are tied up on the side. >> bob, at the same time, the president is saying that and he said this today, he is stressing that congress should pass the buffett rule. listen to this. >> congress needs to make the buffett rule a reality. this is common sense.

if you make more than $1 million a year, make more than $1 million a year, you should pay a tax rate of at least 30%. >> now, when the american people are polled about millionaires taxing millionaires in order to reduce the deficit, 67% say yes. 67%. that's over two-thirds. yet, eric captor thcantor on f sunday defended the gop's stance of taxing of millionaires. >> aren't they basically disagreeing with an awful lot of the republican agenda? >> i think, chris, underneath that question is somehow that we don't care about the people who are out there working paycheck-to-paycheck trying to make t and somehow, it's unfair. what i would say, it is unfair that these individuals who want

a better life, who want more jobs and higher pay are not getting it. >> bob? >> first of all, it is buffett rule? i thought it was buffet rule that always confused me. cantor is out there talking about people working paycheck to paycheck, i think he is talking about people paychecks $10 million each time he gets one white house because that seems to be the people they are representing, the 1 percenters or half of 1 percenters, people who don't want to see the economy really prosper because that means they would have to share part of their wealth, but they have got a real difficult problem, the republicans do that is all people get to vote. if there is a demonstrable improvement in the economy, the republicans have a tough sell. >> dana, isn't it really probably the case that the republicans felt they could run against a bad economy, they were all ready for that their talking points, their spin doctors, and the economy is better than they

thought and they really don't know how to find a new theme and a new justification for run? >> exactly t is fairly late in the game to retool as we now hear mitt romney's trying to do, because everything had been put in place for this kind of a message. they have a very difficult sell now, just as obama was having trouble proving a negative, saying things would be a lot worse if we hadn't put all my policies in place. now the republicans are in a position of saying, well, things would be even better if president obama weren't in power right now. very hard argument to sell for the same reasons. >> dana milbank and bob franken, thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks, al. still ahead, mitt romney is trying to spend his way to the nomination, but voters respect buying it. new talk today of a brokered convention and a bush on the gop ticket. wake up!

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the supreme court has announced it will hear a challenge this fall to an affirmative action policy at the university of texas. the startling news has conservatives hoping the court will overturn its 2003 ruling that said public colleges and universities could consider race during admissions. that case was decided 5-4, but

the court has become more conservative in the last nine years and liberal justice elena kagan has reduced herself because she worked on the issue at the justice department. the court may rule in october, possibly making the case an issue in the presidential race. back in 2003, when the court first considered this, we marched outside the supreme court. we fought to make sure all student also a shot at a good education and here's my message today. we're ready to do it again. i'm freaking out man.

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ultrasounds. this comes after a day of massive protests, where over 1,000 people surrounded the state capitol. the house was expected to pass it, sending the law to governor bob mcdonnell, who said he would sign it. new reports today say some lawmakers are hinting they may try to make changes in the bill to soft continue a bit. this is good news. when you fight back, you might not win, but if you don't fight back, you are guaranteed to lose. the people of virginia are speaking loud and clear. it is a thinly veiled excuse to take control of a woman's body away from her and put it in the legislature, the government where it does not belong. >> this is an underhand, slip and slide way to try to come up with a way to undermine roe v wade, but in so doing so, it is crashing women's rights, it's crashing women's health. >> it is crashing women's

rights. they want to force women into having intrusive ultrasounds. this is their idea of small government? joining me now from richmond, virginia, virginia delegate kay corey, democrat from fairfax who has been fighting back against the bill. and in san francisco, joan walsh, editor at large of salon.com. great to have both of you with us. >> thanks, reverend al. >> great to be here. >> delegate corey, let me start with you. this news today that things might be changing is good news. what can you tell us? what are you hearing? >> truthfully, i'm not hearing anything except that it will probably go by for the day in hopes that the media will focus on something else and i'm here to ask you not to stop focusing on this. >> well, you don't have to worry about that. joan, how, in your judgment, in 2012, are we talking about this

kind of intrusive, and in my opinion, biased, anti-womankind -- woman kind of legislation passing in virginia? >>thy think he counted on us not paying attention, us in the media and frankly, us as women a lot of these ultrasound bills have passed in other states. most of them are not quite as intrusive, but a couple of them r and they are frankly, i'm ashamed to admit it hasn't been the hue and cry we have had in virginia. i just want to thank rick santorum because i really think that he woke women up, women and men, up to the fact that his agenda doesn't stop with abortion. it really does include birth control and it really includes all of the decisions that we make as individuals and as families about our health and women have a lot -- we have a lot of these issues, it comes up

a lot, contraception costs us a a lot of money out of pocket and these guys are laughing about it. and saying that it is cheap. they are saying we can use aspirin between our nieknees. some of us feminist and liberals have maybe sound aid largists over the years that we have warned about this way of thinking and desire to control women. now we have got a guy like santorum telling us that is exactly what he wants to do. >> let me ask you, delegate kory, people, according to polling, 55% of polls, mandatory ultrasounds, 55% of virginians, 52% oppose the personhood law. >> yes. >> so, if you've got the majority of the people in your state opposed to these measures, what are your republican colleagues telling you what are they thinking? why are they bent on doing such

a thing? no political reason and clearly, they can't be thinking this is something that is respectful of women's rights. >> it's moral arrogance it really s this is an attempt at legislating -- a legislative chastity belt. this is punishment, this is punishment. people have been holding back for a long time in virginia and now we are being flooded with anti-women rights bills. >> now, while i'm talking but to your colleagues, there are other conservative measures that they are deciding. this is just the tip of the iceberg. you have got -- allow adoption agencies to discriminate against gay couples in front of the legislature there in virginia, repeal a law -- repeal it, now, limiting gun purchases to one per month, voter i.d. requiring photo i.d. at polls, something we getting ready to march about so it seems like they have a

whole support gas board of right-wing reactionary legislation they are trying to push through in your state. >> oh, i agree with you. there are so many repressive measures coming to the house of delegates it is very, very frightening. i think people aren't going to recognize virginia come the end of this session if they don't start shouting and the protesting now. >> now, joan, let me ask you this are we seeing with social issues, like the personhood law, which other states have proposed and even defeated in mississippi, that's how bad it s. >> right. >> and mississippi is certainly not considered a progressive state. when we see social issues, religious issues raised on the president, are we seeing a desperate move by the right to try and ram down their version of morality and social issues down the throat of americans and this may end up being what

defines politics 2012? >> i think the president will do his best and democrats do his best to focus on economic issues that unite us rather than divide us, but i think they have overreached i don't know what polls they are looking at, i don't know who think this is a winning issue for them but virginia, it is a purple state you can the president carried it. there is a battle for the soul of virginia now. these people i believe have overreached and awakened some people, suburban women, for example, who maybe didn't think any of this pertained to them and maybe didn't think it was a big deal they voted or not. there was a lot of comp place sense in 2010. so between the economic improvement and this reactionary social legislation, i think they are waking up the democratic base and they are waking up end pen dents and they are scaring the hell out of them. so it's good news for democrats and it's good news for folks --

good folks in virginia. >> delegate kory, joan is right because even the polling of women, the president is now up against -- in a poll up against willard mitt romney talking to unmarried women, up nine points since last month. they are driving even more women to the president. >> joan is absolutely right and especially young women are outraged. young women, like my daughter, who is in her 20s, who never thought that this would be an issue that she would have to fight in her lifetime. it is about time that young women became motivated and political and they are doing it now and they are getting ready for the presidential election. >> well delegate kaye kory, i promise you will i will be on this issue. thank you for joining me tonight to both of you. >> thanks, reverend al. ahead from bad to worse, we

got a real look behind the curtain in the romney campaign today and it is very telling. and franklin graham is the latest to question the president's religion. my commentary on faith and politics is coming up. stay with us. i was in shock.

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welcome back to "politics nation." mitt romney's favorability is running low and so is his bank account balance. last month, romney and his super pac took in $13.1 million in donations, but they spent over double that amount, $32.7 million in january alone. a lot of that cash was spent on attack ads. >> is this dude serious? fiscal conservative? really? mitt romney's negative attack machine is back on full throttle. romney's trying to hide from his big government, romney care, and his support for job-killing cap and trade. >> santorum pushed for billions of wasteful pork, voting for the bridge to no where a teapot museum, even an indoor rain forest. >> mitt romney's ugly attacks are going to backfire.

these are samples of all candidates using attack ads against each other. all told, the republicans have already spent six times more on attack ads than the candidates in 2008 election did over the entire race. willard romney is in second place in michigan. rick santorum is holding a four-point lead. joining me is mark mckinnon, a republican media advisory, co-founder of no labels, and vice chair of hillary norton strategies. he is writing in the daily beast today about the possibility of a broader convention and a third party candidate. mark, thanks for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> and now with romney's troubles in michigan and else where can this all go away or can this stay around all the way to the convention and if so,

what happens then? >> if mitt romney loses michigan, i think the al gore rule kicks in, which is if you can't whip your home state, then you shouldn't win the nomination, country win the presidency. so if that happens, very unlikely, even if he wins barely, looking increasingly likely that neither santorum nor romney or gingrich can get to the convention with the needed 50% of the delegates. you can see,could become a floor fight getting to 50%. if romney loses michigan, i guarantee you there is going to be absolute panic in the republican party, 'cause we have gone from six months ago, looked like the gop couldn't lose and today, looks like there is no way we can win. so the gee teen is focus the mind of the party to alternative strategies. >> now, mark, when you look at romney earned 6.5 million spent 18.8. gingrich earned 5.6 million, spent 5.9, paul 4.5 million earned, 5.2 million. i mean, it's not like these guys are not trying to get some

traction and not spending a whole lot of money it is just not connecting. that is a problem. hasn't been a resource problem for anybody and that is largely because of the super pacs that are being funded by huge contributors, often something we could talk about for a long time and a huge problem in our politics now. the more they do it, the less traction they are getting, less support they are getting and making harder for them to be attractive candidates in the general election. >> but when you look at mr. romney's running against the president, if he is able to pull it out, president has raised 76 million, romney, 7.7 million. this is the cash on hand, not total raised. it seems that romney is not well financed against -- in terms of cashing in if he has to deal with the president, 'cause he is

spending so much money trying to muddy up opponents in the primaries. >> well, true you and the -- part of the problem with the long nomination process, bleeding down the resources with the republican candidates, however, i will say that whoever is nominated on the republican side and the president, all going to have plenty of money at the general election. both sides raised way too much money, waste too much money and we really need a different -- to reform the way we finance our campaigns. that is another issue. >> now, mark, you wrote something today in the daily beast that really kind of caught my attention. i couldn't wait for you to come on tonight to ask you are you serious? you said in today's article you, mark mckinnon, said jeb bush. let me repeat that h jeb bush. for the third time, jeb bush. i want folk at home to get that, would be the most likely white

knight candidate to get drafted into a broader convention. he has also always been the consensus favorite among republican party officials. are you telling me that this party may give us another bush to run if this goes all the way to the convention? fnch they could, they would absolute any a heartbeat. jeb bush is beloved across all demographics for the republican party. everybody think also he would be great candidate. he didn't run and hasn't run for obvious issues, i think he understands the legacy problems but it there were an absolute train wreck, which is unlikely, but it's possible, the first person the party woerlsd turn to is jeb bush. >> now, do you think that push could really be competitive? do you think the legacy problem, as you call it the memory of his brother, that there's been enough distance in just four

years? >> you know, i think actually there has been and i think that given the environment that we are in today, that jeb bush could run under this scene scenario and be a competitive candidate in this environment. >> what would be the basis of his candidacy? what could he say to the american public that would make them think not only the war that went awry for his brother, but the economy. what would make them feel they would be different, even though it's not fair to say one brother's like the other, but he is named bush, we have a whole lot to sell to people. >> well, yeah and i think he understands that, but that -- you know, he has been able to, as very successful governor with a lot of programs that people believe he did an excellent job as chief executive of florida, he is a real compassionate conservative, real compassionate conservative. he has a great relation with hispanics. he has been a broker of moderation with a very conservative record reaching out

across the aisle. >> we are going to have to cut it there. compassionate conservative, i thought that was something in a republican museum. mark mckinnon, thanks for your time tonight. we will be right back. [ male announcer ] we know you don't wait

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we have been hearing lot of talk about faith and religion in recent days. this morning, franklin graham went on national television to question president obama's christian faith. and in washington, we have seen politicians using faith to attack women's right to health care. the fact is religion has always had the potential to divide us. martin luther king jr. once said the most segregated hour of christian america is 11:00 on sunday morning. instead of praying together, americans often let the belief that they have drive them apart, like the televangelist who blamed september 11th on gay people or who linked hurricane katrina to abortion debates.

it doesn't have to be that way. our religious views can help us pull together, they can guide us toward justice, as dr. king said back in 1965. >> the bible tells us that the mighty men of joshua, men that walked about the walled city of jericho, the barriers to freedom came tumbling down and we can answer with creative nonviolence, a call to higher ground, with the new directions of our sorrow summons us. >> i am a christian but i don't require everyone to believe what i believe and share my faith. i believe in jesus, i read and preached him since i was a little boy, a jesus that healed the sick, opened blind eyes, open deaf ears, but he never asked anyone he healed what faith they believed in and never told them they had to be with him